Talk:Robert Muldoon
Did Muldoon really carry a LAW rocket? I don't think so, but can anybody else back me up? EtheyB (talk) 17:37, September 16, 2012 (UTC) Muldoon's Fate Okay, to avoid an edit war, this is how it goes: He's DEAD in the Film Canon, ALIVE in the Novel canon, and ALIVE in the Comics. Keep it to those sections, like that. Crichton saw the films, comics, and all other supplementary material very much SEPARATE from his novels and we should respect that as without him this Wiki wouldn't be here in the first place. Now, as for the Comics VS Films thing. The comics themselves use the films as a platform, yes, but they aren't in the same Universe as the films themselves. There's far too many differences between them for them to fit properly together and not cause inconsistencies. One such inconsistencies is the ultimate fate of one Robert Muldoon. In the films, he is implied to be dead. Do we see it as explicitely as we do Genarro's or Deiter's death? No, but that is the beauty of implication. We never see Jophrey's, Ray Arnold's, or even Peter Ludlow's (who, BTW, also went on to survive in a comic) bodies, yet we mark them all down as being deceased characters in the Film Universe. Beyond the implied side, we DO have the TLW deleted scene that makes mention of Muldoon's death. Deleted scenes are always canon if they have been film and do not interfere with established canon. TL;DR version: He's dead, Jim. 12:22, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Topps comics are canon? No, he isn't. There is officially liscensed documented evidence that cleary states otherwise in absolutely no uncertain terms. The comic IS part of the movie universe. This is not an opinion, this is irrefutable fact that can be backed up with factual evidence. I've got my issue right here and it clearly says all rights reserved by the holders of the people who hold the copyright to the property. That makes it canon. Doug Exeter (talk) 19:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :I know that comic claims to be the official contuation, but that Topps comics contradict a lot of film material. If you want to prove the Topps comics ARE film canon lets discuss it here. MismeretMonk (talk) 21:52, February 22, 2013 (UTC) “Next, Schreck revealed that “Jurassic Park: Redemption” has no relation to the Topps “Jurassic Park” comics released in the nineties.” Firstly, JP: Redemption is considered its own canon apart from all the other Jurassic Park comics that had been released before by Topps as well as from the Film canon. It acknowledges the main events of each of the films, but changes the relationship between Peter Ludlow and John Hammond from the way it was intended as well as having other canon issues. Alexis Murphy is now Alexa. Dodgson does not, apparently, work for BioSyn but is more of a saboteur for hire. There is also faults in the story itself, and plot holes that were never filled by the end of the story. Source for this comes from here. As for the standpoint on other IDW comics within this canon it has yet to be determined. 21:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Does he die in the scene? If he isn't outright stated to have died, then that implies he could be alive just as much as dead. That's the beauty of implication as well. You're argument goes both ways. And I DID specify things like Apparent '''and '''presumably '''in no uncertain terms. Doug Exeter (talk) 19:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :We never see that Donald Gennaro or Jophery is ripped apart in pieces either. Spielberg didn't wanted to show all that. That is why we only see that Muldoons head is in the raptors mouth and then the camera goes away. For most people it is obvious Muldoon cannot have survived this scene. You can diver, but you will be a minority among us. :Being a minority does NOT mean that someone cannot be right. :For most people, Humphrey Bogart actually said "Play it again, Sam" in "Casablanca". That is clearly shown not to be the case. Mass belief in something doesn't automatically mean it's correct or actually the case. However, I can cite officially liscensed sources to back my statements up. Let me make that more prominent since you conveniently choose to ignore it. '''Sources officially liscensed by the owners of the JP copyrights. :Muldoon is one of the best of the best at handling dinosaurs. He obviously wouldnt have that position if he wasn't able to deal with the animal in question. Head in the raptor's mouth? Roy Horn got his head gnawed on by a friggin tiger and survived. It can and has happened in real life.Doug Exeter (talk) 23:00, February 22, 2013 (UTC) You're right, the majority does not rule. The majority opinion means nothing if it is wrong. If there is a conflict of opinion regarding something, it is to be discussed rationally until a clearly defined conclusion can be drawn based on the evidence. If opinions split for any reason and neither are wrong while both are based on sufficient facts, research, and logic, the matter is to be given further consideration for inclusion in the article. If a matter proves inconclusive, the matter is either left out of the encyclopedia, or included with clear indication of the speculative nature of the matter, though the latter is to be avoided as often as possible. -- 03:42, February 23, 2013 (UTC) Deleted Boardroom scene And deleted scenes are NOT canon. They never have been, ever. What we see on the screen is it. So deleted scenes are entirely beside the point, as they were deleted for a reason. Doug Exeter (talk) 19:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :This deleted scene was ONLY removed due to spacing. Not because they wanted to save Muldoon after all the work they had put into making this scene. Part of this scene was used in official TLW trailers. If you want to prove this scene isn't canon you have to discuss that elsewhere. MismeretMonk (talk) 21:52, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Secondly, deleted scenes are always canon by default unless stated otherwise. If they weren't, then Ellie Sattler is a magician because there would be no other way to explain how a leaf suddenly appears in her arms. With the deleted Sick Triceratops Diagnosis scene, we find out why Ellie is cupping the handful of small stones she found underneath the West Indian Lilac bush while the scene is closing. And Isla Sorna must have wormholes that pop up all over it, because Ludlow's bottle of scotch and mug suddenly appear next to the infant T. rex when he's being used by Roland to trap the Tyrannosaur buck. Without deleted scenes being canon, we get plotholes and inconsistencies. 21:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC) It's only canon because you want it to be. Deleted scenes have never, ever been acknowledged as canon to anything. What is canon is just what's on the screen. And Ill discuss it wherever I damn well please. Last I checked people had a right to free speech. That means even if you disagree with it. And wikis are meant for anyone to edit. And my edits have officially published materials to back them up.Doug Exeter (talk) 23:05, February 22, 2013 (UTC) Do not ever, EVER accuse me of including fanon wants into the canon. I am not in this to just make up whatever "facts" I choose. I go by the evidence, and what follows logically. I just want the facts. It is not fact until proven otherwise because if it were proven at all, it would be a fact and not a speculative point. A Wiki article should not contain any fanon, at all, ever. All hard evidence from source material counts. It doesn't matter if the prop is in some way inaccurate, or whatever. If it's something we see in the films or read in the books, etc, that is what is there and we have to deal with it. We cannot wish it away, or throw it out without having an evaluation of the matter. Even then, it would take very jarring error for a decision like that to be made for an individual item, and even then a decision will probably be made as whether that particular piece of media as a whole is canon or not to the universe it is being attached, depending on what is found. If I make an argument, I have always backed it with hard evidence, proper research and sensible logic. If my argument is dis-proven, then I revise my idea and bring it back for evaluation, or drop the idea. I don't have room for people insisting something is right in spite of evidence to the contrary. It wastes my time, and it wears on my nerves to deal with. If you think you're right, prove it, or let it go and walk away with dignity. Do not try dancing around the facts. -- 03:40, February 23, 2013 (UTC) Overall judgement TLDR, it's just as likely he survived the movie.officially liscensed Evidence supports it. And Im not backing down on it. Doug Exeter (talk) 19:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :To back up your point, you have to prove that the comics are movie canon and that the boardroom scene isn't canon. This are huge issues on their own. Until you've convinced me and the other admins of this, you're not allowed to assume it common knowledge and write it in the article. MismeretMonk (talk) 21:52, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :I can easily prove it's movie canon. Pick up a comic. On the front page there are legal disclaimers. Right there are statements that the story is fully liscensed by the owners of the JP copyright. This is required of all comics based on a property. If the owners of the copyright fully liscensed it, then it's canon. It was published, the owners of the copyright cashed the royalty checks from the sales of the comic. End of discussion :And the boardroom scene is cut. You seem to keep overlooking this fact. Therefore it isn't relevant. Otherwise it would have been included. Simple common sense. The owners of the copyright chose to exclude it from the movie. Cut scenes have never been allowed as canon. :Just because you're the admin doesnt make you automatically infallible. Doug Exeter (talk) 23:16, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :1. Just because it is an officially licensed product doesn't make it in any way a part of the canon. The Ultimasaurus toy is an officially licensed product by Hasbro Inc. and NBC Universal Studios yet it has not appeared in a single game, comic, movie, or book relating to Jurassic Park. The fact that it exists as a toy has no bearing on anything having to do with the Canons. :2. Cutscenes are always considered canon. I have no idea where the notion that they aren't is coming from but from my studies of film, any scene that is filmed then cut at a later point in time is a deleted scene and automatically is to be considered canon unless it is contradicted within the theatrical release. Such an example of a deleted scene that is not to be considered canon is the alternate take of the Spinosaurus lunging out of the river to attack the barge. Instead, this was scrapped and instead the Spinosaurus sneaks up behind the barge. Because what we see in the alternate take is different from what we see in the final film, this alternate take is a non-canon deleted scene. Michael Kahn is not a copyright holder of Jurassic Park unless, of course, he owns stock shares in NBC Universal Studios, in which case he would share the copyright with the rest of the stockholders. Michael Kahn is an editor. He works closesly with the director of a film in post-production to decide which scenes can best be taken out without disrupting the flow of the film. The fact that the deleted scenes explain instances in which they would otherwise be inconsistencies/film goofs, lends credit to their intention as part of the canon. 03:28, February 23, 2013 (UTC) Named after Robert Muldoon is probably named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Muldoon Could the Trivia section be edited to say this, or do we not have enough proof? Snowviraptor (talk) 07:36, July 7, 2015 (UTC) :Well, they share the same name. I'd be more comfortable with it if we had more evidence than just that. BastionMonk (talk) 09:42, July 7, 2015 (UTC) My God... You people are terrified of trolls... Shouldn't there be mention of Muldoon's inclusion in LEGO Jurassic World?